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Forums: Index > Watercooler > International migration

(An earlier forum on related subjects was Forum:Migrants/immigrants/emigrants - including those who stopped over on the way.)

Template:RootsEdit

The new template {{roots}} creates a record of the country of birth of self and all ancestors. It puts this on subpage /roots. See Nicolaas Simon Korver (1856-1922)/roots. If people are content with this, it could move to the sensor page. However, if we want to display information on villages etc; or an ancestry share per country (NS Korver is 75% Dutch and 25% German), we need to keep a separate page for reasons of size and performance. rtol 08:43, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Categorization of migrationEdit

I noted that people manually categorize "Migrants from A to B". With SMW, this can be automated:

{{#ifeq: {{getfact|birth nation}} | {{getfact|death nation}} | | [[Category:Migrants from {{getfact|birth nation}} to {{getfact|death nation}}]] }}

rtol 08:43, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
We also (since some time after 2010) have {{Category Migrants from country to country}}, which makes manual work easier and covers more cases, including those where the nation field is not filled in but is obvious from the nation subdiv1 or even county. It may even be able to cover state-to-state migration, where we have numerous categories already - familypedia.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages&from=Migrants+from. See its own talk page. -- Robin Patterson (Talk) 23:43, July 19, 2016 (UTC)

Categorization of ancestry placesEdit

I noted that people manually categorize "Ancestry from A". This can be automated too.

Let me know if this is worth my while; and whether other things can be simplified. rtol 08:43, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Yes! I would love to see this automated. Lanica 17:58, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Properties rather than categoriesEdit

Migrants from A to B is easy. See {{CatMigration}} and Migrants from Germany to Netherlands.
"Ancestry from" is easy with properties, very hard with categories. Unless people protest, I'll go with properties. rtol 15:23, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

The template is now {{Migration}} and it is part of {{showfacts biography}}. A number of you are testing. Please report back if strange things happen. rtol 21:59, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

The templates now also pick up the nation from the locality. rtol 20:21, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

Note that "Migrants from A to B" only works if both country A and country B have a page.

Note that "the" is dropped: "Migrants from USA to Gambia" rather that "Migrants from THE USA to THE Gambia". rtol 18:18, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

We could easily fix the template to put the article in, if we had a property on the country page. Thurstan 21:10, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
Let's try that. rtol 05:13, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
Done: please test. Thurstan 06:58, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
Tested. My great-grandma now moved to THE Netherlands. rtol 07:14, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

Demo: Ancestry from ByzantiumEdit

{{#ask: [[Ancestry::Byzantium]]|?father|?mother|?ancestry}} returns

 FatherMotherAncestry
Ivers Whitney Adams (1838-1914)Walter Adams (1807-1876)Sarah Whitney (1815-1901)United States
United Kingdom
France
Germany
England
Russia
Ukraine
Belgium
Netherlands
Spain
Byzantine Empire
Italy
Portugal
Hungary
Byzantium
Belarus
Melvin Ohio Adams (1847-1920)Joseph Adams (1818-1891)Dolly Winship Whitney (1819-1901)United States
United Kingdom
France
Germany
England
Russia
Ukraine
Belgium
Netherlands
Spain
Byzantine Empire
Italy
Portugal
Hungary
Byzantium
Belarus
Ireland
Anna Margaret Aires (c1567-1629)John R. Aires (1540-1566)Margaret R. Whitford (c1544-)United Kingdom
England
France
Germany
Russia
Ukraine
Belgium
Spain
Portugal
Hungary
Israel
Byzantium
Netherlands
Ireland
Belarus
Byzantine Empire
Italy
John R. Aires (1540-1566)Edmond LeStrange (1527-1590)United Kingdom
England
France
Germany
Russia
Ukraine
Belgium
Spain
Portugal
Hungary
Israel
Byzantium
Netherlands
Ireland
Belarus
Byzantine Empire
Italy
Henry II of Navarre (1503-1555)Jean of Albret (1469-1516)Catherine I of Navarre (1470-1518)Spain
Portugal
Germany
France
United Kingdom
Russia
Ukraine
Hungary
Belgium
Italy
Netherlands
Byzantium
England
Czech Republic
Belarus
Byzantine Empire
Turkey
Benjamin Alden (1681-1741)David Alden (1645-1719)Mary Southworth (c1650-1719)United Kingdom
England
France
Germany
Belgium
Russia
Ukraine
Netherlands
Kingdom of England
Ireland
Spain
Portugal
Italy
Byzantine Empire
Hungary
Byzantium
Belarus
David Alden (1717-1782)Benjamin Alden (1681-1741)Hannah Brewster (1688-1763)United Kingdom
Netherlands
England
France
Germany
Belgium
Russia
Ukraine
Kingdom of England
Ireland
Spain
Portugal
Italy
Byzantine Empire
Hungary
Byzantium
Belarus
James Alden (1775-1853)David Alden (1717-1782)Elizabeth Thorndike (1731-1804)United Kingdom
Netherlands
England
France
Germany
Belgium
Russia
Ukraine
Kingdom of England
Ireland
Spain
Portugal
Italy
Byzantine Empire
Hungary
Byzantium
Belarus
James Alden (1810-1877)James Alden (1775-1853)Elizabeth Tate (1771-1824)United Kingdom
Netherlands
England
France
Germany
Belgium
Russia
Ukraine
Kingdom of England
Ireland
Spain
Portugal
Italy
Byzantine Empire
Hungary
Byzantium
Belarus
Mary Alden (1709-1789)Benjamin Alden (1681-1741)Hannah Brewster (1688-1763)Kingdom of England
United Kingdom
England
France
Germany
Belgium
Russia
Ukraine
Netherlands
Ireland
Spain
Portugal
Italy
Byzantine Empire
Hungary
Byzantium
Belarus
Samuel Alden (1688-1781)David Alden (1645-1719)Mary Southworth (c1650-1719)United Kingdom
England
France
Germany
Belgium
Russia
Ukraine
Netherlands
Kingdom of England
Ireland
Spain
Portugal
Italy
Byzantine Empire
Hungary
Byzantium
Belarus
Sarah Alden (1731-1788)Samuel Alden (1688-1781)Sarah Sprague (1701-1773)Kingdom of England
United Kingdom
England
France
Germany
Belgium
Russia
Ukraine
Netherlands
Ireland
Spain
Portugal
Italy
Byzantine Empire
Hungary
Byzantium
Belarus
Michael James Aldridge (1982)Larry William Aldridge (1956)Kathleen Kim Jones (1957)United States
Ireland
England
Germany
United Kingdom
France
Russia
Ukraine
Switzerland
Scotland
Northern Ireland
Belgium
Spain
Portugal
Hungary
Netherlands
Byzantium
Israel
Belarus
Byzantine Empire
Italy
Denmark
Stephanie Mishelle Aldridge (1989)Larry William Aldridge (1956)Kathleen Kim Jones (1957)United States
Ireland
England
Germany
United Kingdom
France
Russia
Ukraine
Switzerland
Scotland
Northern Ireland
Belgium
Spain
Portugal
Hungary
Netherlands
Byzantium
Israel
Belarus
Byzantine Empire
Italy
Denmark
Emmeline Helen Allan (1837-1904)Andrew Allan (1798-1837)Augusta Bayly (1808-1860)United Kingdom
Australia
Belgium
Spain
France
Germany
England
Russia
Ukraine
Portugal
Ireland
Israel
Hungary
Byzantium
Netherlands
Belarus
Byzantine Empire
Italy
Catherine Cheney Alldrich (1800-1874)Nahum Aldrich (1769-1799)Rebecca Cheney (1773-1836)United States
United Kingdom
England
France
Germany
Russia
Ukraine
Belgium
Spain
Portugal
Hungary
Israel
Byzantium
Netherlands
Ireland
Belarus
Byzantine Empire
Italy
Andrew Allen (1782-1867)Jude Allen (1743-1828)Sarah Philbrick (1744-1827)United States
United Kingdom
France
Germany
Spain
England
Russia
Ukraine
Belgium
Byzantium
Netherlands
Byzantine Empire
Italy
Anna Louise Allen (1880-1964)William Mercer Allen (1853-1927)Virginia Reakirt Thompson (1856-1929)United States
United Kingdom
France
Germany
Russia
Ukraine
Spain
Portugal
England
Belgium
Netherlands
Ireland
Israel
Byzantine Empire
Italy
Hungary
Byzantium
Belarus
Benjamin Allen (1673-1743)Edward Allen (1632-1696)Sarah Kimball (1635-1696)United States
United Kingdom
France
Germany
Spain
England
Russia
Ukraine
Belgium
Byzantium
Portugal
Netherlands
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Italy
Hungary
Israel
Belarus
Electa Allen (1775-1825)Zebulon Allen (1727-1786)Freedom Cooley (1734-1801)United States
United Kingdom
France
Germany
Spain
England
Russia
Ukraine
Belgium
Byzantium
Portugal
Netherlands
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Italy
Hungary
Israel
Belarus
Joseph Allen (1702-1786)Benjamin Allen (1673-1743)Mary Towsley (1682-)United States
United Kingdom
France
Germany
Spain
England
Russia
Ukraine
Belgium
Byzantium
Portugal
Netherlands
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Italy
Hungary
Israel
Belarus
Jude Allen (1743-1828)Jude Allen (1714-1793)Elizabeth Locke (1718-1771)United States
United Kingdom
France
Germany
Spain
England
Russia
Ukraine
Belgium
Byzantium
Netherlands
Byzantine Empire
Italy
Jude Allen (1714-1793)Jude Allen (1679-1738)Deborah Locke (1685-1753)United States
United Kingdom
France
Germany
Spain
England
Russia
Ukraine
Belgium
Byzantium
Netherlands
Byzantine Empire
Italy
Mary Allen (1681-1731)Jedidiah Allen (1646-1711)Elizabeth Howland (c1646-1711)United States
United Kingdom
England
France
Germany
Russia
Ukraine
Belgium
Spain
Portugal
Hungary
Israel
Byzantium
Netherlands
Ireland
Belarus
Byzantine Empire
Italy
Sarah Allen (1822-1897)Andrew Allen (1782-1867)Eunice Miner (1783-1866)United States
United Kingdom
France
Germany
Spain
England
Russia
Ukraine
Belgium
Byzantium
Netherlands
Byzantine Empire
Italy
Thomas Humphrey Cushing Allen (1822-1900)Lewis Allen (1783-1844)Mary Denison Smith (1789-1854)United States
United Kingdom
France
Germany
Russia
Ukraine
Spain
Portugal
England
Belgium
Netherlands
Ireland
Israel
Byzantine Empire
Italy
Hungary
Byzantium
Belarus
William Mercer Allen (1853-1927)Thomas Humphrey Cushing Allen (1822-1900)Jane Deverdier Woodruff (1832-1878)United States
United Kingdom
France
Germany
Russia
Ukraine
Spain
Portugal
England
Belgium
Netherlands
Ireland
Israel
Byzantine Empire
Italy
Hungary
Byzantium
Belarus
Zebulon Allen (1727-1786)Joseph Allen (1702-1786)Hannah Clesson (1705-1790)United States
United Kingdom
France
Germany
Spain
England
Russia
Ukraine
Belgium
Byzantium
Portugal
Netherlands
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Italy
Hungary
Israel
Belarus
Samuel Amidon (1742-1819)Roger Amidon (1702-1757)Elizabeth Hunkins (1715-1747)United States
United Kingdom
England
France
Germany
Russia
Ukraine
Belgium
Spain
Portugal
Hungary
Israel
Byzantium
Netherlands
Ireland
Belarus
Byzantine Empire
Italy
Sybil Amidon (1783-1863)Samuel Amidon (1742-1819)Ruth Wood (1745-1831)United States
United Kingdom
England
France
Germany
Russia
Ukraine
Belgium
Spain
Portugal
Hungary
Israel
Byzantium
Netherlands
Ireland
Belarus
Byzantine Empire
Italy
Andrew Robert Coghill Arbuthnot (1926-2010)Robert (Robby) Wemyss Muir Arbuthnot (1889-1962)Mary (Molly) Coghill (-1986)India
United Kingdom
Germany
France
England
Belgium
Spain
Netherlands
Russia
Ukraine
Portugal
Italy
Byzantium
Hungary
Czech Republic
Belarus
Switzerland
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Scotland
Israel
Turkey
Archibald Francis Arbuthnot (1805-1879)William Arbuthnot, 1st Baronet (1766-1829)Anne Alves (-1846)United Kingdom
Germany
France
England
Belgium
Spain
Netherlands
Russia
Ukraine
Portugal
Italy
Byzantium
Hungary
Czech Republic
Belarus
Switzerland
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Scotland
Israel
Turkey
Elizabeth Barbara Arbuthnot (1765-1841)Robert Arbuthnot, Jr, 2nd of Haddo-Rattray (c1728-1803)Mary Urquhart (1745-1818)United Kingdom
Germany
France
England
Belgium
Spain
Netherlands
Russia
Ukraine
Portugal
Italy
Byzantium
Hungary
Czech Republic
Belarus
Switzerland
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Scotland
Israel
Turkey
George Arbuthnot (1815-1895)George Arbuthnot (1772-1843)Elizabeth Fraser (1792-1834)United Kingdom
Germany
France
England
Belgium
Spain
Netherlands
Russia
Ukraine
Portugal
Italy
Byzantium
Hungary
Czech Republic
Belarus
Switzerland
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Scotland
Israel
Turkey
George Arbuthnot (1772-1843)Robert Arbuthnot, Jr, 2nd of Haddo-Rattray (c1728-1803)Mary Urquhart (1745-1818)United Kingdom
Germany
France
England
Belgium
Spain
Netherlands
Russia
Ukraine
Portugal
Italy
Byzantium
Hungary
Czech Republic
Belarus
Switzerland
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Scotland
Israel
Turkey
George Arbuthnot (1836-1912)John Alves Arbuthnot (1802-1875)Mary Arbuthnot (1812-1859)United Kingdom
India
Germany
France
England
Belgium
Spain
Netherlands
Russia
Ukraine
Portugal
Italy
Byzantium
Hungary
Czech Republic
Belarus
Switzerland
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Scotland
Israel
Turkey
George Gough Arbuthnot (1847-1929)Archibald Francis Arbuthnot (1805-1879)Gertrude Sophia Gough (c1816-1882)United Kingdom
Germany
France
England
Belgium
Spain
Netherlands
Russia
Ukraine
Portugal
Italy
Byzantium
Hungary
Czech Republic
Belarus
Switzerland
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Scotland
Israel
Turkey
James Norwich Arbuthnot (1952)John Sinclair-Wemyss Arbuthnot (1912-1992)(Margaret) Jean Duff (1919)United Kingdom
Germany
France
England
Belgium
Spain
Netherlands
Russia
Ukraine
Portugal
Italy
Byzantium
Hungary
Czech Republic
Belarus
Switzerland
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Scotland
Israel
Turkey
John Alves Arbuthnot (1802-1875)William Arbuthnot, 1st Baronet (1766-1829)Anne Alves (-1846)United Kingdom
Germany
France
England
Belgium
Spain
Netherlands
Russia
Ukraine
Portugal
Italy
Byzantium
Hungary
Czech Republic
Belarus
Switzerland
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Scotland
Israel
Turkey
John Sinclair-Wemyss Arbuthnot (1912-1992)Kenneth Wyndham Arbuthnot (1873-1915)Janet Elspeth Sinclair-Wemyss (1889-1982)United Kingdom
Germany
France
England
Belgium
Spain
Netherlands
Russia
Ukraine
Portugal
Italy
Byzantium
Hungary
Czech Republic
Belarus
Switzerland
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Scotland
Israel
Turkey
Kenneth Wyndham Arbuthnot (1873-1915)William Reierson Arbuthnot (1826-1913)Mary Helen Anstruther (1839-1912)United Kingdom
Germany
France
England
Belgium
Spain
Netherlands
Russia
Ukraine
Portugal
Italy
Byzantium
Hungary
Czech Republic
Belarus
Switzerland
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Scotland
Israel
Turkey
Laura Calvert Arbuthnot (1830-1917)George Arbuthnot (1772-1843)Elizabeth Fraser (1792-1834)United Kingdom
Germany
France
England
Belgium
Spain
Netherlands
Russia
Ukraine
Portugal
Italy
Byzantium
Hungary
Czech Republic
Belarus
Switzerland
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Scotland
Israel
Turkey
Louise Victoria Arbuthnot (1954)John Sinclair-Wemyss Arbuthnot (1912-1992)(Margaret) Jean Duff (1919)United Kingdom
Germany
France
England
Belgium
Spain
Netherlands
Russia
Ukraine
Portugal
Italy
Byzantium
Hungary
Czech Republic
Belarus
Switzerland
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Scotland
Israel
Turkey
Mary Arbuthnot (1812-1859)George Arbuthnot (1772-1843)Elizabeth Fraser (1792-1834)United Kingdom
Germany
France
England
Belgium
Spain
Netherlands
Russia
Ukraine
Portugal
Italy
Byzantium
Hungary
Czech Republic
Belarus
Switzerland
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Scotland
Israel
Turkey
Robert George Arbuthnot (1843-1890)Archibald Francis Arbuthnot (1805-1879)Gertrude Sophia Gough (1816-1882)United Kingdom
Germany
France
England
Belgium
Spain
Netherlands
Russia
Ukraine
Portugal
Italy
Byzantium
Hungary
Czech Republic
Belarus
Switzerland
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Scotland
Israel
Turkey
Robert (Robby) Wemyss Muir Arbuthnot (1889-1962)Robert George Arbuthnot (1843-1890)(Helen) Mary Muir (1862-1926)India
United Kingdom
Germany
France
England
Belgium
Spain
Netherlands
Russia
Ukraine
Portugal
Italy
Byzantium
Hungary
Czech Republic
Belarus
Switzerland
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Scotland
Israel
Turkey
William Arbuthnot, 1st Baronet (1766-1829)Robert Arbuthnot, Jr, 2nd of Haddo-Rattray (c1728-1803)Mary Urquhart (1745-1818)United Kingdom
Germany
France
England
Belgium
Spain
Netherlands
Russia
Ukraine
Portugal
Italy
Byzantium
Hungary
Czech Republic
Belarus
Switzerland
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Scotland
Israel
Turkey
William Reierson Arbuthnot (1950)John Sinclair-Wemyss Arbuthnot (1912-1992)(Margaret) Jean Duff (1919)United Kingdom
Germany
France
England
Belgium
Spain
Netherlands
Russia
Ukraine
Portugal
Italy
Byzantium
Hungary
Czech Republic
Belarus
Switzerland
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Scotland
Israel
Turkey
William Reierson Arbuthnot (1826-1913)George Arbuthnot (1772-1843)Elizabeth Fraser (1792-1834)United Kingdom
Germany
France
England
Belgium
Spain
Netherlands
Russia
Ukraine
Portugal
Italy
Byzantium
Hungary
Czech Republic
Belarus
Switzerland
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Scotland
Israel
Turkey
William Reierson Arbuthnot (1866-1938)William Reierson Arbuthnot (1826-1913)Mary Helen Anstruther (1839-1912)United Kingdom
Germany
France
England
Belgium
Spain
Netherlands
Russia
Ukraine
Portugal
Italy
Byzantium
Hungary
Czech Republic
Belarus
Switzerland
Ireland
Byzantine Empire
Scotland
Israel
Turkey
... further results


Small criticism. Byzantium, like Bohemia and England and Prussia, for example, is not a current nation and I suspect that it's not even a current subdivision of a nation (or, if it is, it may have very different boundaries from the mediaeval one and therefore possibly be wrong). I don't mind us trying to move towards assigning events to the current names of former places but I think we should initially encourage people to follow the basic standards until such alternatives are well established. The "former places" problem can lead to absurdities like the people who were born in Alsace and never moved from the same village but will be programmatically determined to have migrated from France to Germany or vice versa depending on when they were born. And the other problem of often not being able to assign a historic nation to an event if you don't know its date (e.g. "c1870" in Alsace (village known with certainty, but which nation?)). Closer to the home of many of you guys: for states not nations but the same idea: "c1865" (locality or county now definitely in WV) - was that in WV or VA when it happened? -- Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:02, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

False resultsEdit

Anyone who made more than one distinct migration in life will be given a false result by the birth/death routine. My father's parents migrated from the UK to New Zealand as children. If one of them had died while on holiday or business in some other country years later, they would get a false reading.

What we really need is to push ahead with some more of the data processing that User:Phlox started, which many of us see evidence of, every time we add a new person using SMW: {{showfacts journeys}} is probably almost ready to be implemented; see its coding: http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Showfacts_journeys?action=edit. Users will be able to specify actual migrations and have them display correctly.

-- Robin Patterson (Talk) 02:50, January 18, 2013 (UTC)

ResidencesEdit

A related matter is the proposed development of {{Showfacts residences}}. -- Robin Patterson (Talk) 23:43, July 19, 2016 (UTC)

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