Category talk:Similar person names

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Contents 1 Quick creation of "Similar person names" pages 2 Page name styles 3 Further refinements possible 3.1 Eliminating but linking to similar spellings 3.2 Middle names come in as surnames 3.3 Comma straight after surname 3.4 Other points 4 Dutch version 5 Second-level disambiguation 6 Recent alterations? 7 New headings 8 Improving link to Wikipedia

[edit] Quick creation of "Similar person names" pages

(Please use the latest version below rather than an old copy.)

We can automatically display in some detail all the people with the selected "bare" name who have "/info" pages. See Mary Brown for how it lists them (with "Short description" if any) then tabulates them in detail (in sortable columns) just above the disambiguation notice. Any people of the same name without "/info" pages should be added manually ABOVE the DPL coding lines (then manually removed if they get info pages and appear automatically further down).

Copy the following (from the displayed page, not the edit box) down as far as the line above "above this line", paste it into the disambiguation page, and make the necessary few changes (i.e. delete the two "Mary Brown" example lines near the top, and substitute surname and given name each twice in code lines and twice in bracket lines):

{{trywp}}{{tocright}}'''"{{PAGENAME}}"''' may refer to:
<!-- *{{PAGENAME}}, child of [[John "Jack" Brown (1758-1822)]] leave this line 
for copying with changes to description -->
*[[Mary Margaret Brown]]
*[[Mary Margaret Brown (1811-?)]]<!-- yes, we may catch duplicates/triplicates -->
<br><DPL>
  titleregexp=.*Mary_.*Brown_.*info
  namespace=
  includepage={info} disambig
  mode=userformat
  listseparators={|\n \n! \n!\n|-,\n|-\n,\n|,\n|}
</DPL>
==Comparison==
<DPL>
  titleregexp=.*Mary_.*Brown_.*info
  namespace=
  includepage={info} dpl
  mode=userformat
  listseparators=\n{|class=sortable border=1 cellpadding=3 \n!Person \n!Birth \n!Death \n!Father \n!Mother\n!Spouse\n|-,\n|-\n,\n|,\n|}
</DPL>{{Similar person names|name=Brown, Mary}}
[[Category:Brown (surname)]]<!--do not use surname template, which sorts on full pagename-->
{{DEFAULTSORT:Mary}}<!--just first name here, with no space after it-->
==More detail of some==
<!-- details from census and other records can help distinguish -->
==Notes and references==
<references/>
==See also==
* <!-- add links to existing and/or potential disambiguation pages with 
similar spellings such as Maria Brown, Maria Browne, and Mary Browne -->

<!--above this line-->

---

Then ideally (in a new window) paste the page name into the "Find" or "Search" box to pick up some others, as I have just done. In case that "Search" box is just a "Go" box - as in Monaco skin - add a comma at the end so as not to "go" to the "bare name" page. Robin Patterson 10:40, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Note the final(?!) refinement for the surname category: to get the plain name listing first, DEFAULTSORT with just the first name, so Mary Brown precedes Mary Amelia Brown and Mary A. Brown and even Mary Brophy Brown. Robin Patterson 09:19, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Page name styles

We should try to follow the Wikipedia styles for names here (partly to save bot-time when copying and partly to save typing-time).

"Xyx (disambiguation)" should be used only where there is one single/singular Xyx in the world that nearly everybody who knows one of them thinks of first - such as Abraham Lincoln or London - and we want a disambiguation-style page to link to all the others. London in England is just London; the listing-others one will be London (disambiguation). Each should refer to the other, and there are templates to make that very easy.

Robin Patterson 02:02, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Further refinements possible

[edit] Eliminating but linking to similar spellings

The above now incorporates (thanks to User:Thurstan) the underscores after each name that prevent inclusion of longer names such as "Maryanne" and "Browning". It also eliminates "Browne", which is somewhat disadvantageous; the solution to that is a separate page for Mary Browne with links to and from. Robin Patterson 12:34, 27 July 2008 (UTC). Added a heading and guidance for the links. Robin Patterson 03:33, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Middle names come in as surnames

As it stands, the coding will pick up middle names and treat them as surnames for listing. One may wonder why it has to do that - maybe the second element could link only to a surname parameter (possibly the contents of Template:Surname)? Would the experts please investigate that??

If that can't be fixed or until it is, any actual pages that are picking up middle names may be fixed by adding after each underscore a backslash followed by an opening round bracket (as shown at http://genealogy.wikia.com/index.php?title=William_Levingston&action=edit) , so that the only instances picked up will be those where the selected name is followed by a space then a parenthetical expression (usually a year of birth and maybe a year of death). It would not be a good idea to change the model to do that, because that would eliminate too many names that should appear in some searches, such as hyphenated names (where the first element could be a valid hit) and names of people followed by the places they owned (such as John Pollok of Balgray (c1690-aft1720)).

Robin Patterson 12:34, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Four months later, no response to the paragraph following the heading. Maybe I should not have asked for experts. You guys who know about these things are too modest to identify with that title. Please reply if you have any ideas! Robin Patterson 14:14, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Comma straight after surname

This happens with "Jr." etc. Here's how Thurstan fixed one: http://genealogy.wikia.com/index.php?title=Fraser_Robinson&curid=90140&diff=208310&oldid=208296 — I presume the single brackets indicate an alternative. Any problem with adding that into the standard? Robin Patterson 06:25, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Other points

Three thoughts/ideas:

1. Could we build this template into Template:Similar person names, since it seems they're inextricably linked?
2. Would it be possible to simplify this template to something using pagename parameters (something similar to Template:Poss duplicate)?
3. Would it be possible to use the aforementioned error that User:Thurstan fixed with underscores to create a "See Also" section linking to other disambigs?

What do ya'll think? Do I know what I'm talking about? Plcoffey 19:49, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I understand the questions but I'm not a good enough coder to fix them all. I've just incorporated a manual response to your question 3; your question 2 is closely related to my above request for the experts to investigate; and for question 1, for now, I suggest that you do as I do, which is to have this page in my widgets box for instant access, whence I just copy and paste. Robin Patterson 03:33, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dutch version

Two of our biggest recent contributors have Dutch as mother tongue. I have suggested to one of them that he could translate the above "template". It would be useful for Dutch names. It could be below this paragraph but might be best on a separate page with Dutch explanation. Perhaps fully integrated into the template, as Plcoffey suggested at point #1 above. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 10:49, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Second-level disambiguation

For very common names, there may be value in having another level of disambiguation with people who share two name elements and a date element. First worked example is Mary Brown (1850-?). Maybe its page name should be Mary Brown (1850-....)? Either way, use sparingly. Slightly different code would cater for Mary Brown (?-1844). However, as I suggested on a related page, "reporting" techniques (possibly using Semantic MediaWiki) may be a better way to list people with three or more common elements in their pagenames. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 10:49, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Recent alterations?

Maybe I've miscopied something. Hurrying before bedtime. Adam Starr doesn't list the 1844 man as it should. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 14:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Still not showing, so it must be more than a cache issue? — Robin Patterson (Talk) 06:14, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] New headings

See Robert Hester for how a more detailed page can easily evolve; including some standard headings will encourage users to explore that option. The TOC fits in nicely. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 06:14, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Improving link to Wikipedia

The current WP link has at least two imperfections.

1. Often there will be no page of that name on WP, and the reader gets an invitation to search. That can annoy readers who would prefer a direct search link from here to save that extra step. It can also annoy readers who have been told that WP has a particular page only to find that it has not.
2. If there is a page of that name, it will often be for a single individual, not always one that we have on Familypedia. That can be good or bad! Either way, it doesn't help the reader find more than one such person on WP.

I'm therefore proposing to change the link to a WP search. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 09:13, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

As an interim measure, I've changed the template, but not to a search. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 11:28, 30 July 2009 (UTC)