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Five interesting lines of descentEdit

From RootsWeb's GEN-MEDIEVAL mailing list, a much-discussed thread starts roughly like this (subject to insertion of links to our pages and a couple of other sites):

From: RDAVIDHW@AOL.com (David Hughes)

Subject: five descent-lines from Mohammed "The Prophet of Islam"

Date: 8 Apr 2004 22:16:12 -0700

  • Mohammed "The Prophet of Islam", d632

Wives and unspecified liaisons:

  1. Khadija [her 3rd =]
  2. Sauda
  3. Aisha, dau of Abu-Bakr, [1st] Caliph 632-634;
  4. Hafsah, dau of Umar, [Omar], [2nd] Caliph 634-644
  5. Zawdah [Zainab], dau of Umar [Omar], [2nd] Caliph
  6. Salaina
  7. Mabiba
  8. Djuwairiya
  9. Safiya
  10. Maimouna
  11. Marie
  12. Raihana

issue:

(a) Ruqayyah [Roccija]; = Uthman [Othman], [3rd] Caliph 644-656
(b) Kulthum, = Utayba, son of Abu Lahab
(c) Fatimah; = Ali, [4th] Caliph 656-661

etc

LINE 1Edit

  1. Mohammed "The Prophet of Islam", d632 - his Geni page
  2. Roccija = Othman, [3rd] Caliph 644-656
  3. Aisha [or dau of Muawiya, Caliph 661-680] = Marwan I ben Hakim, Caliph 683-5
  4. name (sis of Abd-al-Malik, Caliph 685-705) = Muza ben Nasar [Nuseir], conqueror - Todd A. Farmerie suggests weakness here, because "sis" might be half-sis
  5. Abd-al-Aziz [ibn Musa], d717
  6. Aisha [or dau of Abdul Yazid al-Wallid Umayyade] = Fortun ibn Cassio - Todd A. Farmerie totally unconvinced; author replies with apologetic correction
  7. Muza ibn Fortun, governor of Saragoza, d788
  8. Muza ibn Muza, governor of Saragoza, d863 = Assona Iniguez de Pampelune
  9. Lope [ibn Musa ibn Musa], gov of Saragoza (875) = Ayab al Bulatiya
  10. Auria [Aurea] (dau) = Fortun Garces "el Monje" of Pampelune - Todd A. Farmerie totally unconvinced; Don Stone notes "Christian Settipani's latest book, cited below, has a section (pp. 112-116) entitled "Aurea, épouse de Fortun," "
  11. Onega = Abdallah, Emir of Spain 848-912, son of Muhammad I, Caliph, in Spain
  12. Zayd
  13. Zaydan ibn Zayd [Zedao Zada] - Todd A. Farmerie suggests weakness here
  14. Zaira= Lovesendo Ramirez de Leon
  15. Abu-Nazir Lovesendiz, Cide de Leon = Unisco Godinez des Asturias
  16. Hermigio Abunazar de Leon = Vivili Trutesendiz - Todd A. Farmerie suggests weakness here
  17. Adosinda (dau) = Pelaio Gutierriz da Silva
  18. Fernao Paes da Cunha, Senor de Tabua, he had a brother, Guterre Paes [Aldarete] da Silva, governor of Portugal 1082, see LINE = Mor Uzbertiz
  19. Lourenco Fernandes, Senor de Tabua = Sancha Lourence de Maceira
  20. Mor Lourenco da Cunha = Ourigo da Nobrega
  21. Maria Ouriguez = Pero Rodriguez de Cambra
  22. Martim Pires de Alvim, Senhor da Honra de Alvim, d1334 = Margarida Pires Ribeiro
  23. Joao Pires de Alvim, Senhor da Honra de Alvim
  24. Leonor Anes de Alvim = Nunio Alvarez Pereira
  25. Beatriz Pereira (d1420) = Alfonso de Braganza
  26. Isabel de Braganza (1402-1465) = Juan de Aviz
  27. Isabel de Aviz, Infanta of Portugal (1428-1496)
  28. Isabella I, Queen of Castile (1451-1504) = Fernando
  29. Juana "La Loca" ["Mad Joan"] = Philip of Hapsburg
etc

LINE 2AEdit

- his Geni page

  1. Mohammed "The Prophet of Islam", d632 = Kadidja, dau of Khuwaylid
  2. Kalthum (dau) = Utayba, son of Abu Lahab
  3. dau [or dau of Marwan [& wife Aisha], son of Hakim, son of Abu-el-Asis] = Yazid II, Caliph 720-724, son of Abd al-Malik, Caliph 685-705
  4. Hisham, Caliph, in Syria, 724-743
  5. Abd er-Rahman I, Emir of Spain, d788
  6. Hakam I, Emir, d822
  7. Abd-er-Rahman II, Emir, d852
  8. Muhammed I, Caliph, in Spain, d886
  9. Abdallah I, Emir of Spain 848-912 = Onega Fortunez - Todd A. Farmerie suggests weakness here
  10. Zayd [ibn Abdallah]
  11. Zaydan
  12. Zaira = Lovesendo, son of Fethe, son of Abeth al-Hasani, son of the Idrissid, al-Hasan al-Hajjam, son of Muhammed, son of al-Kassim, son of Idris II (792-828), son of Idris I (d792), son of Abdullah, son of al-Hasan al-Muthanna, son of al-Hasan (625-670), whose mother was Fatima, dau of Mohammed "The Prophet of Islam" - Todd A. Farmerie suggests weakness here
  13. Abu-Nazir Lovesendiz de Leon = Unisco Godinez des Asturies - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00346847&tree=LEO with no parents shown for Abu
  14. Hermigio Abunazar de Leon = Vivili Trutesendiz - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00474695&tree=LEO
  15. Adosinda (dau) = Pelaio Gutierriz da Silva - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00474694&tree=LEO
  16. Guterre Paes [Aldarete] da Silva, governor of Portugal 1082 (1030-1110), his bro was Fernao Paes da Cunha, Senor de Tabua, see [# 18] LINE-1 - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00474691&tree=LEO
  17. Pelaio Gutierriz da Silva, Senhor de Froilao (1061-1141) = Urraca Rabaldiz de Ribeiradio [his 2nd =] - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00474689&tree=LEO
  18. Gomez Paes da Silva, Senhor da Honra e Torre de Silva (1131) = Urraca Nunes Velho - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00474687&tree=LEO
  19. Pelaio Gomez Bugalho da Silva, Senhor da Honra e Torre de Silva (1167-1258) = Maria Fernandez de Zobra - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00544640&tree=LEO
  20. Gomez Paes Bugalho da Silva, Senhor da Honora e Torre de Silva = Mecia Martins Dade - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00458016&tree=LEO
  21. Joao Gomez da Silva, Senhor da Honora e Torre de Silva - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00428910&tree=LEO
  22. Ayres Gomez o Grande da Silva, Senhor da Honora e Torre de Silva = Urraca Mendes Tenorio [his 2nd =] - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00458008&tree=LEO
  23. Alonso de Silva, Senor de Barcience (1370-1430) = Guiomar de Menezes - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00458006&tree=LEO
  24. Juan de Silva, Conde de Cifuentes = Ines de Ribera - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00232196&tree=LEO
  25. Francisca de Silva = Honorato de Mendoza - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00050117&tree=LEO
  26. Garcia de Mendoza = Isabel Briceno - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00050102&tree=LEO
  27. Maria de Mendoza = Wratislaw von Pernstein - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00050099&tree=LEO
  28. Polyxena (1566-1642) = Zdenko Adalbert Lobkowicz - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00050092&tree=LEO
  29. Wenzel Franz Lobkowicz (1609-1677) = Augusta Sophia von Sulzbach - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00007413&tree=LEO
  30. Ferdinand Augustus Leopold, Baron von Lobkowicz (1655-1715) - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00007415&tree=LEO
  31. Maria Ludovika von Lobkowicz (1683-1750) = Anselm Franz von Thurn & Taxis
  32. Marie-Augusta (1706-1756) = Karl Alexander von Wurttemberg
  33. Friedrich II Eugen, Duke of Wurttemberg, d1797 = Dorothea von Hohenzollern
  34. Ludwig, Duke of Wurttemberg, d1817 = Henriette of Nassau-Weilburg
  35. Alexander, Duke of Teck, d1885 = Claudine Rhedey
  36. Franz von Teck (1837-1900) = Marie Adelaide of Britain
  37. Victoria Mary of Teck (1867-1953) = George V, King of Britain
  38. George VI of the United Kingdom
  39. Elizabeth II, Queen

LINE 2BEdit

  1. Mohammed "The Prophet of Islam", d632 - his Geni page
  2. Fatima = Ali [ibn abu-Talib], Caliph [in Iraq] 656-661
  3. Hasan (625-670)
  4. al-Hasan al-Muthanna
  5. Abdullah
  6. Idris I (d792)
  7. Idris II, 792-828
  8. al-Kassim
  9. Muhammed
  10. al-Hasan al-Hajjam
  11. Abeth al-Hasani
  12. Fethe
  13. Lovesendo = Zaira, see generation # 14, Line-2A (above)
  14. Abu-Nazir Lovesendiz de Leon, # 15 generation in Line-2A (above)

see Line 2A (above)

LINE 3Edit

  1. Mohammed "The Prophet of Islam", d632 - his Geni page
  2. Fatima (dau) = Ali [ibn abu-Talib], Caliph [in Iraq] 656-661
  3. Al-Husein (626-680), Imam of the Shi'ites, Iraq
  4. Ali Zain al-Abidin (653-713), imam in Iraq
  5. Mohammed al-Bakhir (681-733), imam in Iraq
  6. Djafar al-Sadikh (708-765), imam in Iraq
  7. Ishmael ibn Gafar (736-760)
  8. Mohammed [ibn Ishmael]
  9. Ishmael
  10. Ahmed [ibn Ishmael]
  11. Obeidallah al-Mahdi (846-934), Caliph, in Egypt
  12. Mohammed al-Khaim (873-946), Caliph
  13. Ishmael al-Munsur (901-952), Caliph, in Egypt
  14. Dihja (dau) = Qaris [Kharis] ibn Abbad, khadi in Seville, Spain
  15. Ishmael [ibn Qaris], khadi in Seville
  16. Mohammed I abul-Khasim (980-1042), hachib of Seville
  17. Abbad al-Mutadid (1010-1069), "Emir of Spain"
  18. Mohammed II [al-Mutamid, ? bro of # 17?] (1040-1095), Emir of Seville
  19. Zayda (dau) = Alfonso VI, King of Castile - Todd A. Farmerie says she was daughter-in-law - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00020895&tree=LEO is Alfonso
  20. Sancha = Rodrigo "El Franco" Gonsalez de Lara - Todd A. Farmerie says Sancha was dau of Isabella; we don't show an Isabella; we give Alfonso and Zaida a daughter Elvira of León (c1100-1135) and only one other child, Sancho Alfónsez (c1093-1108); however, Genealogics has Sancha, b. 1100 to Alfonso VI and Zaida, but has a note on her husband "he does not have a son Rodrigo Rodriguez de Lara (taf)" and shows four generations of descendants but nothing touching this line
  21. Rodrigo Rodriguez de Lara = Garcia de Azagra - Todd A. Farmerie says her husband was a genealogical invention - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00115171&tree=LEO seems to be diverging from this tree, but shows no grandparents for Sancha de Lara
  22. Sancha de Lara = Gonzalo [II] Ruiz Giron (d1234) - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00110948&tree=LEO
  23. Maria Gonzalez Ruiz = Guillen Perez de Guzman - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00110949&tree=LEO
  24. Maria (d1262) = Alfonso IX, King of Castile
  25. Beatriz de Alcozea (1242-1303)= Affonso III, King of Portugal
  26. Dionisiso, King of Portugal, d1325 = Isabel of Aragon
  27. Affonso IV, King of Portugal, d1357
  28. Maria of Portugal (1313-1357) = Alfonso IX, King of Castile
  29. Pedro "The Cruel", King of Castile, d1368
  30. Isabel of Castile (1355-1392) = Edmund of Langley, 1st Duke of York (1341-1402)
  31. Richard of Conisburgh, 1st Earl of Cambridge (c1376-1415) = Anne Mortimer, heiress of the Clarence line
  32. Richard Plantagenet, 3rd Duke of York (1411-1460) = Cecily Neville (1415-1495)
  33. Edward IV of England (1442-1483)
etc

descent to Queen Elizabeth

LINE 4Edit

  1. Mohammed "The Prophet of Islam", d632 - his Geni page
  2. Fatimah = Ali
  3. Hasan (d670) = Zhadah Kandaria
  4. Husein
  5. Na'im al-Lakhmi
  6. Na'im al-Lakhmi
  7. Ittaf (fl. 742)
  8. Amir
  9. Aslan
  10. Amir
  11. Abbad
  12. Qarais
  13. Ishmael, Iman of Seville
  14. Kadi Abul-Kasim, aka Muhammad I (d1042)
  15. Abu Amir Abbad, aka Muhammad al-Mu'tamid (d1068)
  16. Abul-Kasim Muhammad [ibn Abbad al Mu'tamid] (d1095), Emir of Seville = I'tamid - Todd A. Farmerie says that was Zaida's father-in-law
  17. Zaida (1075-1107), bapt & renamed Isabel =(1098) Alfonso VI, King of Castile-Leon etc.

descent to Queen Elizabeth - see middle of line 3

LINE 5Edit

Original postingEdit

  1. Mohammed "The Prophet of Islam", d632 - his Geni page
  2. Kalthum = Utayba, son of Abu Lahab
  3. dau [or dau of Marwan [& wife Aisha], son of Hakim, son of Abu-el-Asis] = Abd al-Malik
  4. Abdul Yazid al-Wallid = Egilom, dau of Rodrigo de Balthes, a Visi-Gothic Spanish prince
  5. Aisha = Fortun ibn Cassio - Todd A. Farmerie says Aisha was invented
  6. Muza ibn Fortun, governor of Saragoza, d788
  7. Muza ibn Muza, governor of Saragoza, d863 = Assona Iniguez de Pampelune
  8. Lope [ibn Musa ibn Musa], gov of Saragoza (875) = Ayab al Bulatiya
  9. Auria [Aurea] [v The earliest of the line in Genealogics] = Fortun of Pampelune
  10. Onega Oneca Fortun, Infanta of Pamplona (847-) = Aznar Sanchez de Larraun [son of Sancho Garces of Navarre & Leogundis Ordonez de Asturias] [her 2nd =] - Todd A. Farmerie says there's no evidence for the name of Sancho's wife
  11. Toda Toda Aznárez (885-971) = Sancho I Garces, King of Pamplona [& Navarre], d925
  12. Garcia II Sanches, King of Navarre - Garcia III Sanchez, King of Navarre 931-970, born 919
etc

descent to Queen Elizabeth

Revised LINE 5Edit

Author corrects himself later in the thread

  1. Mohammed "The Prophet of Islam", d632 - his Geni page Muhammad (c570-632)
  2. Kalthum = Utayba, son of Abu Lahab
  3. dau = Abd-al-Malik, Caliph [at Damascus, Syria] 685-705, son of Marwan I, Caliph [at Damascus, Syria] 684-5, [& wife Aisha], son of Al-Hakim, son of Abu-el-Asis, son of Umayyah, from whom the "Umayyids" derive their name
  4. Hisham I, Caliph [at Damascus, Syria] 724-743, his bro was Abdul Yazid al-Wallid, 2nd husband of Egilom, dau of Rodrigo de Balthes, the late Visi-Gothic King of Spain
  5. Muawiya, came to Spain with uncle
  6. Abd-ar-Rahman I, Emir of Cordova
  7. Hisham I, Emir of Cordova, d799
  8. Al-Hakam I, Emir of Cordova, d822
  9. Abd-ar-Rahman II, Emir Cordova, d852
  10. Muhammed I, Emir of Cordova, d886
  11. Abd-Allah, Emir of Cordova, d912
  12. Muhammed
  13. Abd-al-Rahman III, Emir of Cordova, d961
  14. Al-Hakam II, Emir of Cordova, Caliph [at Cordova]
  15. Muhammed
  16. Abd-al-Rahman IV, Emir of Cordova, d1022
  17. Hisham III, [last] Emir of Cordova, d1031
  18. Almoravita = Velo Ingiguez
  19. Ingio Velez
  20. Ladrono Iniguez
  21. Velo Ladronez
  22. Juan Velez - was http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00373566&tree=LEO but by 2016 had changed to http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00615750&tree=LEO
  23. Teresa = Fernando Ruiz
  24. Teresa = Lope Ortiz de Zuniga - Teresa is http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00373559&tree=LEO
  25. Fortunio Lopez - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00373556&tree=LEO
  26. Maria = Pedro Ruiz
  27. Gonsalo - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139528&tree=LEO
  28. Fernando Gonsalez - http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00139521&tree=LEO - = Aldonza Ramirez - missed a generation? - see Maria Fernández de Henestrosa (c1300-) and Maria Arias de Asturias (c1252-)
  29. Maria de Henestrona = Juan Garcias de Padilla - we and thePeerage.com agree that Isabella's mother was Maria de Padilla (though we say Isabella's father was Pedro I, but that's irrelevant); more relevantly, thePeerage.com says Maria's father was Juan Garcias de Padilla, Lord de Villager (but mentions no spouse or parents for him); http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00005048&tree=LEO gives Maria's parents as Juan Garcia de Padilla, Señor de Villagera and Maria Fernández de Henestrosa, whose ancestry is extensive but takes the above line only up to Juan Velez.
  30. Isabella de Castilla (1355-1392) (http://thepeerage.com/p10198.htm#i101979) = Edmund of Langley, 1st Duke of York (1341-1402)
etc - ties to near bottom of line 3

compiled by David Hughes, RdavidH218@AOL.com

  • comments welcome

The Susan Clinton pedigree - http://klausjames.tripod.com/susanclinton.html - branches off the above at Aldonza Ramirez:

Fatimih az-Zahra bint Muhammad (c. 606-632) = 'Alí ibn ‘Abu Talib, 1st Holy Imám of Islám

Hassan ibn 'Alí ibn ‘Abu Talib, 2nd Holy Imám of Islám (c. 625-669)

Husayn ibn Hassan

Zuhra (Zohra) = 'Abu Fârisi ibn 'Abu 'Abid

Na’im al-Lakhmi ibn 'Abu Fârisi

Na’im al-Lakhmi ibn Na’im

‘Itaf ibn Na’im

‘Amr ibn ‘Itaf

‘Aslan ibn ‘Amr

‘Amr ibn ‘Aslan

‘Abbad ibn ‘Amr

Qarays ibn ‘Abbad

Isma’il ibn Qarays, Judge of Seville

Kadi ‘Abu’l-Qasim Muhamad I ibn Isma’il, Chamberlain of Seville

‘Abu ‘Amr ‘Abbad ibn Muhammad, Chamberlain of Seville (d. 1068)

‘Abu’l-Qasim Muhammad al-Mu‘tamid, Emir of Seville (d. 1095) = I‘tamid (former slave)

Zaida (Isabella) = King Alfonso VI de León y Castile (1040-1109)

Sancha de Castile = Rodrigo Gonzales (“El Franco”), Conde de Liebana de Lara

Rodrigo Rodriguez de Lara (b. 1123) = Garcia de Azarga

Sancha Rodriguez de Lara = Gonsalo Ruis II Giron (d. 1234)

Aldonza Gonzales Giron = Ramiro, Señor de Cifontes

Aldonza Ramirez, Señora de Alcacines = Gonsalez Fernan

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